Neighborhood Watch guy chases down a kid, shoots him, charged with 2nd-degree murder

[pGekko]

Never said it was 2nd degree. But manslaughter....I think so.

None the less given the vehement defense by some of GZ. actions, it is absolutely mind boggling.

Yea, I just meant I'd rather talk about the case as it stands and not everyone's opinion on right and wrong. Because, as I said, it's not very interesting to me. You know how those "preachy" folks can be.

Judge the facts against the charge. End of story.

[The_Real_Right_Way]

Yea, I just meant I'd rather talk about the case as it stands and not everyone's opinion on right and wrong. Because, as I said, it's not very interesting to me. You know how those "preachy" folks can be.

Judge the facts against the charge. End of story.

But then again its all speculation at this point for those who like to engage in speculating the outcome and issues leading up to the final verdict. And those who like to speculate will sit back and wait until the verdict before they speculate on the outcome.

[RickFromFowler]

The police dispatcher never told TM not to go to the store. TM did not violate the rules of walking to the store. However GZ was told they don't need him to follow TM. GZ was not to have a firearm while acting in a block watch capacity.

And if we are just making irrelevant stuff up, this would not have happened if GZ was not born. I prefer to stick to the relevant issues however.

GZ having a firearm while acting in block watch capacity is not illegal.

[RickFromFowler]

Size doesn't matter. Trayvon could have been 6'6" 250...that is irrelevant.

Size matters because the characterization of the scenario is "how could GZ think TM posed any threat, he was a scrawny, skinny little kid."

When the actual evidence is TM was a rather large young man.

It also changes the perception that GZ could not have been physically overwhelmed by this small child when you the actual evidence is it was a strapping young man.

[RickFromFowler]

The police dispatcher never told TM not to go to the store. TM did not violate the rules of walking to the store. However GZ was told they don't need him to follow TM. GZ was not to have a firearm while acting in a block watch capacity.

And if we are just making irrelevant stuff up, this would not have happened if GZ was not born. I prefer to stick to the relevant issues however.

Police Dispatcher has no authority to tell TM to go to store or not go to store, just as police dispatcher has no authority to tell GZ to follow or not follow a suspicious person in his neighborhood.

[Eruff24]

Police Dispatcher has no authority to tell TM to go to store or not go to store, just as police dispatcher has no authority to tell GZ to follow or not follow a suspicious person in his neighborhood.

Just as GZ had no authority to approach TM. There were reports stating that GZ wasn't even on NW the night of the incident. Still nobody can answer and hasn't the one question that no wants to address. What did TM do in the first place to make GZ approach him? GZ is a pvssy, he couldn't throw them hands after being the aggressor. So instead of taking that fade like a man, he shoots a unarmed man because he was being beat up.

[motorcityjoe611]

Police Dispatcher has no authority to tell TM to go to store or not go to store, just as police dispatcher has no authority to tell GZ to follow or not follow a suspicious person in his neighborhood.

I'm trying to understand the relevance of everyone's pointing to what GZ's legal rights to do X,Y and Z and what it has to do with the outcome of the events of that night.

I went to a Neighborhood Watch meeting years ago when I moved to Farmington Hills. They were very clear that we had absolutely no rights to do anything other than report to the police suspicious activity, which is the same as any citizen. That was it. If you get enough people to go to the meeting and sign documents, the city puts up a NW sign on your street. It supposedly deters crime. So GZ was pretty much acting as a concerned citizen, though the reports paint him as a rather enthusiastic NW captain.

Rick, you keep referencing who has authority and who does not. You're probably right regarding the authority of a 911 operator, so then why are the operators even there?
A reasonably prudent person would suggest they're an extension of the municipality and a pipeline to police, fire & EMS, that if you call them with an emergency, they are supposed to go through the steps they've been trained to and relay pertinent information, whether it's how to perform CPR, telling you to stay on the line, or in this case, "we don't need you to do that."

So assuming you're correct from a legal standpoint, do you feel that all these things you keep referencing (that GZ had a legal right to do) takes away his culpability as the instigator in this whole situation?

In other words, GZ had a legal right to do everything previous to killing the kid, but had he taken the "advice" of the 911 operator it wouldn't have happened. Because isn't that what the prosecution is going to pound on?

[joeking1978]

Yea, I just meant I'd rather talk about the case as it stands and not everyone's opinion on right and wrong. Because, as I said, it's not very interesting to me. You know how those "preachy" folks can be.

MJudge the facts against the charge. End of story.

It's my opinion that your opinion is yet another preachy opinion. Man up and start speculating like the rest of us.

That said... The whole concept that he pursued and killed him is absurd. Last I knew... Self defense wasn't based on who followed someone, but rather who initiated the physical confrontation.

It's amazing how some have glazed over the fact that TM had snuck around the house and stalked GZ to corner him as he was walking back to the truck. Yet... The fact that GZ followed him to report suspicious activity is what makes or breaks the case? Really?? C'mon..

[motorcityjoe611]

It's my opinion that your opinion is yet another preachy opinion. Man up and start speculating like the rest of us.

That said... The whole concept that he pursued and killed him is absurd. Last I knew... Self defense wasn't based on who followed someone, but rather who initiated the physical confrontation.

It's amazing how some have glazed over the fact that TM had snuck around the house and stalked GZ to corner him as he was walking back to the truck. Yet... The fact that GZ followed him to report suspicious activity is what makes or breaks the case? Really?? C'mon..

I thought there are no witnesses? How does anyone know he stalked GZ? And who is to say TM wasn't in fear of his life? Doesn't change the fact that he's dead.

[joeking1978]

I thought there are no witnesses? How does anyone know he stalked GZ? And who is to say TM wasn't in fear of his life? Doesn't change the fact that he's dead.

I'm only going off what had been presented to the public like everyone else on every other speculative topic.

[motorcityjoe611]

I'm only going off what had been presented to the public like everyone else on every other speculative topic.

Oh I just wondered if new info had come out